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Re: Residential issue which has stumped 3 electricians regulardude#21266601/31/14 12:21 AM | Joined: Jun 2004 Posts: 1,273 Tesla Member | "I am not sure what problem the OP is trying to mitigate." Bingo. Further, if you can figure a cure, will the OP comprehend what you're telling him? J M Sokol is his best bet. %%% At least ECN must come pretty high in the Google standings: he came here. %%% The OP is also a perfect example of how difficult it can be to translate civilianese to electrician-speak ... and vice versa. It's that latter point that's the show stopper. The average Joe is going to cross-confuse virtually everything you have to say. That's dangerous when electro-shock is a possibility. Civilians will do stuff that would never enter an electrician's head. You tube is filled with such bloopers. It's amazing more amateurs aren't killed. |
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Re: Residential issue which has stumped 3 electricians Tesla#21266801/31/14 01:36 PM | regulardudeOP New Member | Originally Posted by Tesla "I am not sure what problem the OP is trying to mitigate." Bingo. Further, if you can figure a cure, will the OP comprehend what you're telling him? J M Sokol is his best bet. %%% At least ECN must come pretty high in the Google standings: he came here. %%% The OP is also a perfect example of how difficult it can be to translate civilianese to electrician-speak ... and vice versa. It's that latter point that's the show stopper. The average Joe is going to cross-confuse virtually everything you have to say. That's dangerous when electro-shock is a possibility. Civilians will do stuff that would never enter an electrician's head. You tube is filled with such bloopers. It's amazing more amateurs aren't killed. Problem I'm trying to mitigate: the coaxial splitters go bad after about an hour of being plugged in. Replace the splitters, then an hour later, internet connection is dropped permanently. comcast sent their line techs to the house to verify that no voltage was entering my house from their lines. The electrician(s) came by and verified that they are seeing 8 volts unaccounted for. As I stated, and as implied by my username, i am no electrician. Just grasping at straws. That's why I provided the summary from the electrician, because I knew I couldn't accurately describe the problem using the appropriate jargon. And yes, I wouldn't likely understand any resolutions that were provided here. However, the "op", while an amateur, isn't an idiot, so I'd never try anything with electricity that I wasn't sure of. There's a difference between civilians and morons. FYI, fios came out yesterday to install their internet, which is a direct line with no splitters. No issues so far, fingers crossed. Lastly, I do appreciate all the responses. |
Re: Residential issue which has stumped 3 electricians regulardude#21266901/31/14 01:49 PM | Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 9,942 Likes: 34 gfretwell Member
| If you are really getting current fed intro the cable I would start with the TVs and other equipment.
I had a Daewoo TV that back fed enough into the cable to trip a GFCI.
Cable amplifiers are another thing to suspect |
Re: Residential issue which has stumped 3 electricians regulardude#21267001/31/14 02:39 PM | Joined: Jul 2001 Posts: 599 JBD Member | Originally Posted by regulardude The electrician(s) came by and verified that they are seeing 8 volts unaccounted for. The phrase "unaccounted for voltage" is not descriptive enough to be meaningful. for example, do you have 8 volts too much or 8 volts too little? For troubleshooting, the proper voltage measurements to be made are (some places might have 2 hots, like at the service panel): Power
Line/Hot to Neutral
Line/Hot to Ground
Neutral to Ground Cable
Shield to Neutral
Shield to Ground
Center to Neutral
Center to Ground Measurements need to be taken at the service entrance,at each receptacle feeding the equipment, and at the affected equipment. It would also be helpful to make these measurements both when the equipment is connected to the cable and when it is not. |
Re: Residential issue which has stumped 3 electricians JBD#21267101/31/14 02:53 PM | regulardudeOP New Member | Originally Posted by JBD Originally Posted by regulardude The electrician(s) came by and verified that they are seeing 8 volts unaccounted for. The phrase "unaccounted for voltage" is not descriptive enough to be meaningful. for example, do you have 8 volts too much or 8 volts too little? For troubleshooting, the proper voltage measurements to be made are (some places might have 2 hots, like at the service panel): Power
Line/Hot to Neutral
Line/Hot to Ground
Neutral to Ground Cable
Shield to Neutral
Shield to Ground
Center to Neutral
Center to Ground Measurements need to be taken at the service entrance,at each receptacle feeding the equipment, and at the affected equipment. It would also be helpful to make these measurements both when the equipment is connected to the cable and when it is not. 8 volts where there should be 0 volts. other appliances were ruled out by flipping each breaker systematically in the house, until all breakers were flipped, and none of them affected the voltage. |
Re: Residential issue which has stumped 3 electricians regulardude#21267201/31/14 04:22 PM | Joined: Jul 2001 Posts: 599 JBD Member | Originally Posted by regulardude 8 volts where there should be 0 volts. other appliances were ruled out by flipping each breaker systematically in the house, until all breakers were flipped, and none of them affected the voltage. Still not specific enough. 8 Volts were measured from where to where?
Ground prong of receptacle to shield of cable?
Neutral of equipment to case of equipment?
Ground of receptacle to neutral of receptacle?
Case of equipment to kitchen sink? We are not there. The only thing we can do is play 20 questions. Did the 8V ever disappear? Right now I would lean toward there being an issue with the neutral and ground in your neighbor's house. For example, if they lost their neutral connection to the utility, they have a faulty cable box and the cable company ground is poor, it is possible that current, from the neighbor is flowing 'out of their house' on the cable and coming 'into your house' before going back to the utility via your neutral-ground connection. |
Re: Residential issue which has stumped 3 electricians JBD#21267301/31/14 05:45 PM | regulardudeOP New Member | Originally Posted by JBD Originally Posted by regulardude 8 volts where there should be 0 volts. other appliances were ruled out by flipping each breaker systematically in the house, until all breakers were flipped, and none of them affected the voltage. Still not specific enough. 8 Volts were measured from where to where?
Ground prong of receptacle to shield of cable?
Neutral of equipment to case of equipment?
Ground of receptacle to neutral of receptacle?
Case of equipment to kitchen sink? We are not there. The only thing we can do is play 20 questions. Did the 8V ever disappear? Right now I would lean toward there being an issue with the neutral and ground in your neighbor's house. For example, if they lost their neutral connection to the utility, they have a faulty cable box and the cable company ground is poor, it is possible that current, from the neighbor is flowing 'out of their house' on the cable and coming 'into your house' before going back to the utility via your neutral-ground connection. All I can do is quote the electrician:
We found 8 volts present on our multi-meter between the ground outlet and the back of the router box, we found the same 8 volts between neutral and the back of the box. The Router is two prone with no ground. We found the same 8 volt issue with the lamp, also a two prong lamp with a metal base. When we grounded the back of the box to the buildings ground through the water pipe the voltage reading went to 0 on the router and the lamp. When we put an inline amp probe between the rear of the router and the neutral we found no current.
We found the neutral and ground bonded in the panel and to the water system - we recommended adding a ground rod, but we do not believe the lack of a ground rod is causing the issue.
We looked for loose neutrals and loose wiring and we did not find any, we did check and tighten your panel connections.
We believe the voltage is being induced rather than being a direct short, thats just a theory. |
Re: Residential issue which has stumped 3 electricians regulardude#21267401/31/14 07:45 PM | Joined: Jul 2001 Posts: 599 JBD Member | Your electrician's troubleshooting skills appear to be limited. I am guessing, it could take almost 20-30 different voltage measurements just to narrow down your problem. Your electrician gave you three. I definitely would be looking into the cable system.
Are your receptacles wired correctly?
Ask your neighbors if they are having problems. |
Re: Residential issue which has stumped 3 electricians regulardude#21267501/31/14 09:11 PM | Joined: Apr 2002 Posts: 7,386 Likes: 7 HotLine1 Member
| Just for my own thoughts.... The OP says "the coaxial splitters go bad after about an hour of being plugged in." Sounds like a cable amp?? Isn't a 'splitter' more or less like a terminal block for coax, with nothing to plug in?? |
Re: Residential issue which has stumped 3 electricians regulardude#21267702/01/14 12:01 AM | Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 9,942 Likes: 34 gfretwell Member
| I think I would make a tester with a LED and a 1k resistor with an F connector on it. If you have enough current to burn out a balun in a splitter, it will light a LED.
Then just start plugging in into boxes until you find the one with the leaky RF can. Use a bi color 2 wire LED, then you don't care about polarity. One way will be red, the other green and AC will be yellow. |
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